I Have A Few Options For A New Console

[brentbizzle]

que13x: larger hard drive is for games... and there's people working on enabling other OS again. Although, with native homebrew, what's the point of it anymore anyway?

BKFraiders7: I didn't say the xbox was dead. I said it was a dead end. And I said it because DVD9 is limited and games are getting bigger. I'm downloading GOW 3 right now. 45 freaking gigs. You would need 6 DVDs for that game. And games are only going to get bigger. Bluray has the capacity.

And yes, we are moving to downloads. I never denied that. But what makes you think we're going download only any time soon? Have you not been paying attention to any provider of internet? Cell carriers are dropping unlimited plans left and right. Over time ISP's have been lowering the caps on their plans.

Look at the stats here: http://www.internetworldstats.com/stats.htm. Now, I have no idea how accurate these numbers are, but regardless, not enough of the world even has internet. And of those who do, how many of them do you think have speeds capable of just downloading games? It's going to take me 14 hours to finish 1 game and get GOW 3 finished, and that's with a steady download speed of 1 MB/sec. Granted, I don't have the best provider, but there are still many on dial up.

We're still going to be dependent on physical media for a while.

And wtf do you mean opinions "have no right in an argument"? WTF do you think an argument is? If opinions weren't involved, there'd be no discussion.

[crait]

I have yet to read the rest of the last few posts, but I'm just going to drop in to say that I actually will never move to download-only media. I want to be able to hold, in my hand, the stuff that I bought. I'm not going to let companies tell me I can't resell what I've purchased or lose something when I try.
http://www.wired.com/threatlevel/2010/0 ... -doctrine/
http://arstechnica.com/gaming/news/2010 ... tising.ars

[ace]

Just because the ps3 scene is newer than the xbox doesn't mean it's worthless. The scene is brand new and already you can just play games off of a HD... hell, I can buy a 3.5in 2TB drive and hook it up to my ps3 as an "internal" drive to keep my USB ports free. And all it takes to make your system legit is a simple reset.
But imagine if they had XBMC ported to the ps3... you then have a literal all-in-one solution, where as with a 360 you'd still need a bluray player.

Well yea I guess you could say that, but I'm just saying the ps3 is wayy behind in the homebrew scene, and if it is anything like the xbox 1 and ps2 scenes I think xbox will be wayy better. But the xbox has been playing burnt games for the past 4 years, since ixtreme's release in 2006, and you are just now beginning to back up games and play them on the ps3? It just seems to me the ps3 is wayy behind in the homebrew scene and by the time the ps3 gets to where the xbox 360 is the next gen consoles will be out if the scene advances at the same speed as any last gen console. So far your only selling point it seems is the bluray player, but to be honest I don't remember the last time I even bought a dvd and didn't stream a movie over netflix. If I wanted just an all in one media center I would buy/build one from newegg though. However, I do have to admit turning it off to make it legit is pretty nice, if it had any games I really wanted to play though.

[BKFraiders7]

BKFraiders7: I didn't say the xbox was dead. I said it was a dead end. And I said it because DVD9 is limited and games are getting bigger. I'm downloading GOW 3 right now. 45 freaking gigs. You would need 6 DVDs for that game. And games are only going to get bigger. Bluray has the capacity.

And yes, we are moving to downloads. I never denied that. But what makes you think we're going download only any time soon? Have you not been paying attention to any provider of internet? Cell carriers are dropping unlimited plans left and right. Over time ISP's have been lowering the caps on their plans.

Look at the stats here: http://www.internetworldstats.com/stats.htm. Now, I have no idea how accurate these numbers are, but regardless, not enough of the world even has internet. And of those who do, how many of them do you think have speeds capable of just downloading games? It's going to take me 14 hours to finish 1 game and get GOW 3 finished, and that's with a steady download speed of 1 MB/sec. Granted, I don't have the best provider, but there are still many on dial up.

We're still going to be dependent on physical media for a while.

And wtf do you mean opinions "have no right in an argument"? WTF do you think an argument is? If opinions weren't involved, there'd be no discussion.

OK, yall have a bigger disk to put more info on. That still doesnt tell me why yall have to install a majority of the games to yalls hard drives. Oh wait, I said the answer to that. Slow Read speeds. And then I went a step farther and told yall thats why you had such big GBs of data on a disk.

Also I dont know how you got 6 disks.. 45/17.1 GBs a disk (yes, the Xbox uses dual sided)= 2.6 which would mean 3 disks.

I dont know about you, but I dont see how the wireless companies putting a data cap on wireless internet even points to landline data caps? The reason they are putting limits is because of spectrum limits..something wired connections dont have. I though youd know that honestly.

Then you bring up the "world internet". I thought the same thing. Then I thought it through. Do Microsoft, Sony, and Nintendo care about the little kid in a 3rd World Country? Would that kid even have a console to play with anyway? No. They care about the big 3- North America, Europe, and Japan which all happen to have internet...and mostly pretty fast.

Yes, Im stuck on a 3mb/s connection right now. It sucks. But thats up from 3 years ago when I only had 768 KB/s. I expect in the next 5 years (whoa, when the new consoles come out) to have more than 3MB/s to my name. I even stated this when I said 10 years you wont be carrying around Blu-Rays. Id probably even go down to 5 years.

And opinions aren't topics for debates. Factual information is.

[brentbizzle]

And opinions aren't topics for debates. Factual information is.

Just gonna go with this because you obviously don't know what you're talking about. When you debate, you use facts and pieces of information to help back up your opinion. The only time facts are ever debated is when they may not be true. The point of a debate is to discuss opinions and opposing viewpoints.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Debate
http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/debate

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Edit: Ok, back with some learnin for ya.

I dont know about you, but I dont see how the wireless companies putting a data cap on wireless internet even points to landline data caps? The reason they are putting limits is because of spectrum limits..something wired connections dont have. I though youd know that honestly.

Comcast: http://www.comcast.net/terms/network/amendment/
ATT Broadband (a bit old): http://www.pcworld.com/article/153312/b ... tandt.html

I'm sure there's more, but i'm not going to keep searching on this issue.

ISPs already have caps, ISP's abroad have caps (every single one in australia does), and if net neutrality is ever passes, they will ALL have caps in the states. This is an issue that will continue to heat up as our dependence on our crappy internet infrastructure grows.

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45/17.1 GBs a disk (yes, the Xbox uses dual sided)= 2.6 which would mean 3 disks.

Ok, sorry, 3 discs you have to take out and flip over.

http://www.eurogamer.net/articles/digit ... i-face-off
That's a good read which solidifies my point. Xbox has to compromise because it uses DVDs.

Secondly, the team had to find a way to compress over 32GB of CG to fit within the confines of three Xbox 360 DVDs - squeezed already by a copy protection mechanism that limits available space to a meagre 6.8GB, less than the storage potential of both PlayStation 2 and Wii.

...the Xbox 360 version was being reported as 1024x576, with 2x multi-sampling anti-aliasing. This is up against native 720p on the original PlayStation 3 version, again with the same 2x level of MSAA, representing a fairly enormous drop of around a third of the overall resolution. So, are the stories about a reduced resolution on FFXIII 360 true? You betcha.

The Xbox Achilles heel is the fact that it uses DVDs. This is my OPINION, and you debate opinions. I believe that as more time passes and better games are released, it will pose an issue for the Xbox. Blu-ray has the capacity to store large games with HD cut scenes.

The Xbox Achilles heel is the fact that it uses DVDs.

As long as $ony holds the patent (or the rights) to Blu-Ray, Micro$oft will never use that technology; else they pay royalties to their #1 competitor.

[ace]

So if space is the only limitation (aside from graphical power) what is stopping Microsoft from simply shipping like 5 disc games and install it to the hard drive like the ps3 does? It's not like the ps3 is reading all of the data of the disc, so why not just do basically the same for the 360 but with a few more discs? If you have to install it anyways then your only be switching discs when your installing it, and discs cost near to nothing to actually produce anyways.

[BKFraiders7]

And opinions aren't topics for debates. Factual information is.

Just gonna go with this because you obviously don't know what you're talking about. When you debate, you use facts and pieces of information to help back up your opinion. The only time facts are ever debated is when they may not be true. The point of a debate is to discuss opinions and opposing viewpoints.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Debate
http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/debate

----------------------------------------------------------------------------
Edit: Ok, back with some learnin for ya.

I dont know about you, but I dont see how the wireless companies putting a data cap on wireless internet even points to landline data caps? The reason they are putting limits is because of spectrum limits..something wired connections dont have. I though youd know that honestly.

Comcast: http://www.comcast.net/terms/network/amendment/
ATT Broadband (a bit old): http://www.pcworld.com/article/153312/b ... tandt.html

I'm sure there's more, but i'm not going to keep searching on this issue.

ISPs already have caps, ISP's abroad have caps (every single one in australia does), and if net neutrality is ever passes, they will ALL have caps in the states. This is an issue that will continue to heat up as our dependence on our crappy internet infrastructure grows.

----------------------------------------------------------------------------

45/17.1 GBs a disk (yes, the Xbox uses dual sided)= 2.6 which would mean 3 disks.

Ok, sorry, 3 discs you have to take out and flip over.

http://www.eurogamer.net/articles/digit ... i-face-off
That's a good read which solidifies my point. Xbox has to compromise because it uses DVDs.

Secondly, the team had to find a way to compress over 32GB of CG to fit within the confines of three Xbox 360 DVDs - squeezed already by a copy protection mechanism that limits available space to a meagre 6.8GB, less than the storage potential of both PlayStation 2 and Wii.

...the Xbox 360 version was being reported as 1024x576, with 2x multi-sampling anti-aliasing. This is up against native 720p on the original PlayStation 3 version, again with the same 2x level of MSAA, representing a fairly enormous drop of around a third of the overall resolution. So, are the stories about a reduced resolution on FFXIII 360 true? You betcha.

The Xbox Achilles heel is the fact that it uses DVDs. This is my OPINION, and you debate opinions. I believe that as more time passes and better games are released, it will pose an issue for the Xbox. Blu-ray has the capacity to store large games with HD cut scenes.

One big quote. I like that

Opinions-
Opinions used support your opinion is what Im saying is worthless. "The Xbocs is betterz because it is to meee" is worthless while, factual information such as "Because the Xbox 360 Arcade system is cheaper at $199, I feel that it is a better purchase for me because of my budget" is alright. In fact, theres a mix. Also, I like that you quote wikipedia when I can go right in and change it to my view lol. That sites worthless.

Caps-
I have ATT and not once have I been notified or sent a notice for my bandwith limit. You said yourself that article is old and (Iv seen that article myself) it was only implemented AS A TEST in A MARKET AREA. Nowhere in there does it say "We will implement this throughout every area by the year XXXX". Do you know what happens when you Assume?

Disks- Why do I have to flip my disk over? lolz you dont have a 360 I notice. You dont have to flip disks.

Final Fantasy- You got me there. We need what, 3 disks or so? I dont play that game so I dont know. Thats always the example people point out. Can you name more? Please? Theres about 5 that I know of. Out of how many? Seems to me more like a developer choice rather than a problem.

Your argument goes out the window though when devs use the 360 and then port the game to PS3. Most devs go this route primarily if you did not know.

Games evolving- How big is your timeframe for the "better games"? 5 years? By 5 years we'll be on the verge of next gen consoles releasing anyway. If we go with DVD9 again then yes, I will be disappointed. 2015 and still using DVD9 would suck. Then itl be time to worry. Now though, with Blu-Ray still not even taking off yet, its no problem.

As long as $ony holds the patent (or the rights) to Blu-Ray, Micro$oft will never use that technology; else they pay royalties to their #1 competitor.

Although Sony is a founding member, its not the only company on the board and by no means could they stop Microsoft from getting BluRay. If Microsoft wanted Blu-Ray it would have it by now. That is almost like saying Microsoft would not license out Windows 7 to Sony to use in their computer lineup because they are competitors.

Further points would include-
Toshiba making BluRay players when they were the headlining HD-DVD competitor.
Why wouldnt Sony not want Microsoft to have BluRay? They would be losing a major campaign slogan but at the same time they would be making something from EVERY Xbox sold then. Depends which one is more profitable.
If Sony did not allow Microsoft BluRay you know there would be a slew of antitrust/anticompetition/investigations on $ony lol government

Why wouldnt Sony not want Microsoft to have BluRay?

I didn't make that post clear, I meant that Micro$oft doesn't want to support $ony by adopting Blu-Ray. I am sure $ony is powerless to deny Micro$oft anything and would be very happy if they adopted the Blu-Ray standard for 360.

[brentbizzle]

Ok, I'm done debating with you BKF. You simply don't know how. You choose which parts to respond to and then drift the argument toward one point instead of addressing all.

I didn't quote wikipedia, and if you noticed, I put up two links to the definition of debate, specifically because I knew someone would make a wikipedia comment. And congrats, it was you. If you read the definitions, they back each other up.

I wasn't just giving my opinion without some basis for it. I said that I believed the Xbox was a dead end console because... wait for it... it uses media with not enough storage. I wasn't saying, "ZOMGZ TEH PS3 IS UBER 1337 CUZ TEH XBOX IZ UBER FAILZZZZ." I stated my opnion, gave a reason, and continued to back it up with other reasons. That's how you debate. And it's always helpful to try and address all points like I said above. Not pick one and bash on it.

Data caps are inevitable when it comes to internet. It hasn't become entirely necessary in the states yet because we're still trying to build our infrastructure, but they are coming. We've seen it a little bit already. If we want expansion of high speed internet, the money has to come from somewhere. Our download buffets will be closing shortly, and it the whole net neutrality thing goes though, expect them even sooner. There's plenty of information on this everywhere. I'll let you look into this yourself if you don't believe me.

I don't know how devs develop games. Hell, I hardly even play video games. I do know in the case of Final Fantasy it went PS3 > Xbox. Fact is, if people are developing for the PS3, there are no compromises to be made. It's got the hardware and ample storage to ship the game. And I don't own an xbox. You said the discs were double sided. That's why I said flipping. If you mean double layered, then you would be referring to DVD9 which has a capacity of roughly 8.5GB, or apparently even less according to the link I gave above. Final Fantasy for xbox is only 3 discs because the entire game is less than 24GB. The PS3 version is over 40GB. The whole reason behind my argument is because of the media, developers have to compromise. More and more households these days have 1080P resolution TV's, and once developers start making games at real 1080P resolution (not upscaled), DVD's just won't fit the bill.

As far as games evolving, I'm not talking about in 5 years, I'm talking now. People want high def. The 3D market is growing. It's not just in game graphics that are the issue, but cut scenes as well. It all takes storage. And even if Microsoft comes out with a new Xbox, it's going to have to have some kind of physical media. Blu-ray already has it's place in the market, and there's nothing else. Even if something else is developed, it more than likely will only be used on the Xbox... When it comes to the systems out now, the PS3 is just more future-proof. Bluray is an easily software updateable technology, hard drives can be updated. The only thing overlooked is wireless N on the system.

And I'm done. Tired of debating with kids...

[BKFraiders7]

Ok, I'm done debating with you BKF. You simply don't know how. You choose which parts to respond to and then drift the argument toward one point instead of addressing all.

lol so I win then. Saweet. Anyway, Debating=

When you debate, you use facts and pieces of information to help back up your opinion. The only time facts are ever debated is when they may not be true. The point of a debate is to discuss opinions and opposing viewpoints.

Hmmmm seems like I had a check beside each one of those.

I didn't quote wikipedia,

You linked to it in a debate and therefore labeled it as factual to your knowledge. I called you out on it. Dont be upset.

And it's always helpful to try and address all points like I said above. Not pick one and bash on it.

I said that I believed the Xbox was a dead end console because... wait for it... it uses media with not enough storage.

So Im not allowed to focus my points on your opening argument, which, in other words, is what the debate was about in the first place? haha Idk if you know how to debate now. I dont see Obama saying "Go healthcare bill!!" and then McCain saying "Obama, in your last statement you mentioned the word 'pony'. I would like to make clear and argue the point that 'horses' are way cooler then ponies. See, you focus on the opening argument and not jump around.

If we want expansion of high speed internet, the money has to come from somewhere.

And where do you imagine this magically appearing money coming from? Our pockets where its already coming from? If you are thinking government funding then... =**= <--The money you could be saving with Geico

I don't know how devs develop games. Hell, I hardly even play video games.

So your debating on a gaming topic without much prior knowledge? That kinda just ruined most of your points.

As far as games evolving, I'm not talking about in 5 years, I'm talking now. People want high def. The 3D market is growing.

I would like to see your numbers on this topic. Nintendo said that the majority of the population does not have HD TVs (which would mean MUCH less 3D). I'm not calling you out on this, I just want to see numbers cause I cant find any to support that that is wrong. Yes, manufacturers are developing them. But are people really jumping in joy and buying them? I just have not noticed this.

And I'm done. Tired of debating with kids...

Wow, insulting at the end. Bravo. I expected more from you. What you said sounds kind of kidish in itself really. Age doesn't make you an adult Brent and, right there, your actions even contradict that.

A debate is a debate, every one has their own style... come on guys, instead of debating the topic your debating on what a debate is .

BKF - I would like to add a point, Nintendo said that, the public didn't... Even if they did a survey, and it is true, that doesn't mean that the people who have HD should be denied...

that is like a new site opens up, and it has accounts like free, regular and premium... and I get a premium account but I can't do anything with it because a lot of people didn't sign up for premium, so I'll be able to use the same features of regular but I payed more...

[BKFraiders7]

A debate is a debate, every one has their own style... come on guys, instead of debating the topic your debating on what a debate is .

BKF - I would like to add a point, Nintendo said that, the public didn't... Even if they did a survey, and it is true, that doesn't mean that the people who have HD should be denied..

Oh I completely agree. I hate playing a Wii on my TV...looks ugly.

[crait]

Well, Wii isn't even an option! >:[

[DarkPacMan77]

Debating debate while debating ftw.

-DarkPacMan77-